CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY Ivo Josipovic sees his involvement in the negotiations between Government and farmers as being within his constitutional duties to work on stability in the country However much Ivo Josipovic might try to belittle the differences of opinion in his relations with Government, there are a growing number of indicators that the HDZ is all but happy with the new centre of power in Croatia. Ten days ago Government levelled criticism towards the President's Office over the President's economic advisory board in which businesspeople are critical of the current economic policy, and over the weekend Government did not take much to Josipovic's arbitration in the dispute with farmers. As a result Andrija Hebrang on Monday accused him in an interview for the Novi list daily that he was trying to bring down Government and secure the return of the left wing to power.

The impression is that Josipovic is not overly concerned about the attacks, and in this interview he says that his political activity is not hurting but rather helping Government and Jadranka Kosor. It is obvious at the same time that the President believes Croatia to be in the midst of a deep crisis, and that in the frame of his authorities he intends to take a strong and active role on numerous issues, from those pertaining to the economy to the work of the police and intelligence services.

The falling out with Government has overshadowed Josipovic's trip last week to Brussels where he met with leading EU politicians. This is his first trip abroad and, as he pointed out in the interview, the EU is ready to receive Croatia into its membership in the near future.

NACIONAL: What are your impressions from Brussels?
- The impressions are very good. I met with the President of the European Council Van Rompuy, the President of European Parliament Busek and with the President of the European Commission Barroso. They all extended Croatian a welcome to Europe. They recognise the progress Croatia has made, but they also made it clear that there are things we need to fix, above all in relation to Chapter 23, which includes the judiciary, combating corruption, the civil service and human and minority rights. The EU expects Croatia to play an even more significant role in creating better relations in South East Europe. I think that this is the Croatian national interest, irrespective of Europe.

Partnership more important than leadership

NACIONAL: European Council President Van Rompuy said that he believes that Croatia will complete the negotiations this year.
- That depends only on our nimbleness in carrying out reforms. It is important that we decisively continue the reforms that have been initiated, and I see no reason why we should not do so. I believe Croatia will complete the negotiations before the year is out.

NACIONAL: Where there signs that Croatia might only get into the EU by 2013 or 2014?
- No. But if the reforms are not carried out, our hopes of becoming a EU member in 2012 will not come to fruition. But I am a great optimist, regardless of the economic woes that have hit us.

NACIONAL: Did you discuss Croatia's cooperation with the Hague tribunal?
- Yes. I reminded all three of the men I spoke to of the progress Croatia has achieved in its cooperation with the Hague tribunal. Croatia did little up to the year 2000, and after that there is an evident constant progress that can be credited to the Government of Ivica Racan, and later the Governments led by Ivo Sanader and Jadranka Kosor. There was some awkwardness in relation to the artillery logs where the system of document control was not up to par. But it would be irrational for a country that has invested so much into its cooperation with the Hague tribunal and which has extradited its generals to risk its European future over a couple of papers. It is important that Government do all it can to locate these documents. If there are no such papers, Croatia cannot be sanctioned for that. I think things are moving in a positive direction and that Croatia will prove that it is undertaking all it can.

NACIONAL: Is the EU seeking that Croatia becomes the leader in the region?
- Regardless of a general improvement in the communication between citizens and in economic and cultural cooperation, there are impediments at the political level. These are not just border issues that Croatia has, in varying intensity, with Slovenia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro and Serbia. In the case of Serbia we have a number of quite important issues that remain unresolved, such as the fate of missing persons, punishing those responsible for war crimes, the restitution of cultural treasures and the resolution of the status of refugees. Partnership is more important than leadership in resolving these issues. Through partnership, the country that is most successful in reforms and most ready for cooperation with other countries will come out as the leader. One does not become a leader by a political decision, but rather by one's capacity for partnership, cooperation and progress, and by the quality of one's own path, which becomes attractive to the others in the region.

President Josipovic with Jose Manule BarossoNACIONAL: Were you asked to provide guarantees for the return of persons of Serb ethnicity?
- Croatia has already provided these guarantees through existing legislation, and through a policy that says that all those who wish to return may do so and that they have the right to the restitution of their property. But after so many years some people have no more interest in returning. This pertains both to Serbs who went to Serbia and to Croatians that moved to Croatia from the former republics, and those who moved from one part of Croatia to another – to one of the major cities, as a rule. They have found employment, have now lived for years in their new milieu, have married, and their children are attending school or university there. It is truly hard to expect them to just get up and return to places they left almost two decades ago. It should, of course, be clear to all that these people have the right to return and the right to the restitution of their property, but it is up to each individual whether they will make use of this possibility.

War on corruption continues

NACIONAL: How great is the danger that Serbia might impede Croatian accession to the EU over unresolved issues?
- I do not believe our neighbours intend to lead an unprincipled policy that would impede Croatian accession to the EU as it blazes a quicker route into the Union for Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina and Montenegro. I expect a consensus from the EU that Croatia's success also means something positive for the countries in the neighbourhood, just like a good situation in these countries also means prosperity for Croatia.

NACIONAL: How would you comment last week's statement from Vladimir Seks, who rejected any possibility whatsoever of backing down from the lawsuit against Serbia for genocide?
- It is Government that decides on this, and a decision should be made on the rationality of the lawsuit when we see how our relations with Serbia are progressing, and whether it is possible to achieve the demands in the lawsuit in some other fashion.

NACIONAL: What is your opinion?
- The lawsuit states certain expectations and demands. If these demands are met, the lawsuit has no particular purpose, and if they are not met, we probably need to continue the procedure. There has been some progress in recent years in fulfilling these demands. We asked that the fates of missing persons be made known, the restitution of looted cultural wealth, the punishment of war crimes and quite a number of other matters.

NACIONAL: The EU is once again interested in Bosnia-Herzegovina. How do you explain the fact that the EU did not react for a long time, above all to the provocative statements made by Milorad Dodik?
- A position emerged, in part as a result of Dayton, that the USA had the leading role in Bosnia-Herzegovina. But the EU also has a concern for Bosnia-Herzegovina, and I personally hope that a formula will be found in the neighbouring country that will guarantee equal rights to all three nations, and that of every individual. Croatia is interested in the status of the Croatian people there. Unfortunately the number of Croatians in Bosnia-Herzegovina has dropped from 17 to 11 percent, and that shows that Croatian policy on both sides of the border was not good. That the Croatian people survive in Bosnia-Herzegovina is a strategic interest. It is Croatia's national policy to respect the sovereignty of Bosnia-Herzegovina and to not meddle in the internal affairs of the country. But as a co-signatory of the Dayton Agreement, Croatia needs to help the Croatian nation there in defining its interest and how to achieve it. I wish to emphasise that this means to help, and not to dictate. Croatia, together with the other signatories to Dayton, can serve, if Bosnia-Herzegovina so wishes, as a moderator in coming to an agreement between the three peoples of Bosnia-Herzegovina. But the responsibility lies with the peoples of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

NACIONAL: Since you based your election campaign on combating corruption, what do you intend to do now that you are President?
- The President chairs the National Security Council. Corruption and organised crime in the economy present a threat to national security and together with Government and Prime Minister Kosor, who is also a member of the National Security Council, we will continue to combat corruption.

We all expect professionalism

NACIONAL: Is it true that the EU expects some former and current high-ranking Croatian officials to be brought to trial?
- The procedures are not led at someone's orders. Nobody therefore, can tell us to "hold twenty trials against seven ministers." Proceedings are led where there is evidence. We all, of course, expect professionalism. By professionalism I mean that cases that reek of corruption be investigated and that the wrongdoers be punished. But none of us expects some kind of quota in meting out punishment, nor would that be in the spirit of the rule of law. And the rule of law really has a lot cut out for it hereabouts.

NACIONAL: Is it possible that monitoring be introduced in Croatia over the issue of the judiciary?
- I do not believe so, in spite of the negative experience the EU has with some of its members. Croatia will accede to the EU when it meets a much more stringent set of criteria than some other countries were required to. The EU wants the criteria to be in place not only at the declarative level but also on a day-to-day level.

Nobody needs to see people getting hurt

NACIONAL: Concerning the dispute between Government and farmers you have said that the state must meet its obligations.
- Policymakers, i.e. Government, must be credible in keep its promises. If that cannot be done, there needs to be patient negotiations, a recognition of where mistakes were made and sights set on how the situation can be fixed. The aim is not to hurt any segment of society in its legitimate rights. It is well known what the amount of the subsidies was in 2008, and if there is no money for it in the budget, and I believe Government when it says that there is none, policymakers must enter a dialogue. The art of politics is to find a solution that will be just in the present circumstances, which is Government's job. I have no intention of leading an economic or agricultural policy, because that is the business of Government, which earns support or negative points for its policies. First of all, I got involved in order to motivate Government to find a just solution because I saw that farmers have a tough go of it on the election campaign trail. Secondly, I did not want farmers to launch protests because I knew that there was danger that these protests could boil over into mass demonstrations, which increases the potential for conflict, and of people getting hurt, which nobody needs.

NACIONAL: Did you speak with Jadranka Kosor?
- I did. Mrs Kosor has good intentions, but we shall se what the result will be. The person looking after budget stability has a different point of view that one who expects something from the budget, and it is a matter of democracy and quality politics that these matters be addressed at the table, and not in the streets.

Jadranka Kosor and Andrija HebrangNACIONAL: Andrija Hebrang has accused you of undermining the work of Government, and that you have been installed at the President's Office at Pantovcak with the aim of bringing down the HDZ and ushering the political left into power. Hebrang is the number two man at the HDZ and I would like to hear you commentary.
- From the moment I assumed the Office of President I have been faced with irrational fears that I will bring down the HDZ and Government. It started with the economic advisory board. I will choose my advisory boards myself and their composition is certainly not an unfriendly act towards Government. Far from it, Government also permanently or intermittently cooperates with these same people. Government and I are on the same side and I am surprised therefore at the antagonism that has been demonstrated on the part of Government. I have shown by words and actions that I cooperate with Government, respecting my constitutional position, and am doing all I can to make Croatia better and more successful. This is especially evident from my discussions with farmers' associations. I did exactly what the Constitution demands – undertaking measures to preserve the stability of the country. I brought the farmers back to the negotiating table, pointed out the possibilities and the need to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Government and farmers through compromise. I informed Prime Minister Kosor about the discussion. Government also reacted well in this case and resumed talks. That is why I consider the agreement achieved a success for both Government and farmers, and also my personal success. In this context, the statements made by Minister Cobankovic, for whom I made possible a quick return to the negotiating table, are distasteful, to put it lightly. As far as Hebrang is concerned, I am sorry that the complaisant, witty and tolerant face from the election campaign trail has turned out to be no more than a mask dropped after the campaign. Hebrang would not launch an attack every few days if it were not part of a broader strategy. Nevertheless, in the public eye he stands alone with his statements. I think that after his ideas of "being brought in", "installed" and "bringing down", he has only to write a nice political Sci-Fi novel. He would do better that with these statements.

Seeking positive solutions

NACIONAL: What if you are visited soon, like with the farmers, with similar demands from shipyard workers who face shutdowns?
- I will absolutely receive them too. It is my duty to talk with people and moderate in the sense of positive solutions, but I repeat, I have no ambitions to lead an economic policy. In discussion with the representatives of the Split steel works I heard horrible things about their situation, and about how the conversion and privatisation process went. I also expect Government to do something because our workers have a right to a dignified life. As President I cannot adopt laws, but I can through suggestions and political activity help solve problems. There are many people who have very tough life; sometimes they are happy even if you just listen to their problems.

NACIONAL: The current situation in Croatia is such that social unrest is possible?
- Exactly. The President is the person whom the Constitution charges with the responsibility of guaranteeing the stability and functioning of the country. I have much to say in this regard and I will do so regardless of whether anyone likes it or not.

NACIONAL: Have you found out who are the members of the para-intelligence community that tried to denounce you, and in some measure some of the other presidential candidates?
- It is now quite unimportant who the victim of these intrigues was. What is at issue is the fact that the para-intelligence community illegally collected and fabricated information, and made them public. This is a classic example of a violation of human rights and freedoms, and an attempt at an extra-institutional influencing of the political system. It is an attack on the intelligence community because the whole intrigue was depicted as coming from legal services. That is why it is a good thing that the perpetrators be unmasked and that we thereby prevent a journalist, politician, businessperson or other public figure from tomorrow becoming the new victims of this underground.

NACIONAL: Are you happy with the work of the police?
- I measure the work of the police through several elements. Of late we have seen an increased effectiveness through the opening of some new cases in white-collar crime. A final evaluation can be made when we see the decisions of the state attorney and the courts. There is an evident trend towards professionalism in the police department. I support the need to depoliticise the police. On the other hand there are also parameters that need to be reviewed. The events on Petar Preradovic Square mean we ought to reconsider the criteria for the use of force towards citizens. This is a particularly sensitive area. I would like the police to have the highest standards of human rights protection in this area, convinced that the Croatian police can meet them.

Guaranteed right to peaceful protest

NACIONAL: How do you comment on the very negative reactions from your former SDP colleagues, levelled at Minister Tomislav Karamarko, who is accused of politicizing the work of the police?
- As I said, we will only be able to make a final political and legal evaluation when we see the decisions of the State Attorney's Office and the courts on the charges that have been filed against respected top officials of the SDP. I do not wish to comment the political activity of political parties. I am now speaking in another role. But I will certainly see to it that the work of the police is not politicized and that no one is subject to proceedings because of their political activity, regardless of what political party they adhere to.

NACIONAL: Do you feel that the police are doing the right thing when they prevent farmer blockades of roads and border crossings?
- The right to peaceful protest is guaranteed by the Constitution. Farmers have found themselves in a truly difficult situation and decided to protest. Representatives of farmers' associations visited me and we discussed their problems. I pointed out, and they accepted, that peaceful protest implies that no force is used and that other citizens are not prevented from carrying out their affairs. I also invested a great deal of effort into encouraging farmers to resume negotiations with Government and I am happy that they decided to do so. I emphasised the need to find a compromise with Government that is just and recognises the need to secure them the necessary conditions in which to do business. I also noted that what Government is pointing out in terms of the real possibilities of the budget need also be recognised. A compromise must be found. The farmers demonstrated their maturity and responsibility. The police force is here to, in the frame of its legal authorities, evaluate if the law has been broken somewhere during a protest. But in such cases, even when it must use force, it must proceed with consideration and in proportion. Everybody, including the police, have to take care that the lives and health of citizens are not threatened. Croatia is a small country and serious excesses such as the unnecessary or excessive use of force can pose a long-term threat to social cohesion and the country's stability.